S1, E7: From Law Firm to Ocean Impact: Breaking the Rules While Playing the Game

Miranda Lindl: [00:00:00] So I was easily able to kind of take the rules and kind of tidbits and tools that I was learning from the private foundation side and start applying it to my for profit clients too, who started to engage in, used to be called corporate social responsibility investing, and then it was called ESG, and now it’s called impact investing, whatever it is, and basically having some sort of non –  financial priority in making the investment.

And that’s what I was put up on partner on eventually is basically developing that whole plan and having to work for me. And it was so fun. It was just a great opportunity.

Did you know the average person will work 90, 000 hours in their lifetime? What if you could use those hours to find fulfillment?

And become a disruptor for good. Welcome to the work that’s worth it podcast. I’m Georgi Enthoven, and I’m here to demonstrate that an ambitious, meaningful, and rewarding career is not just a dream. It’s achievable. Each episode, we’ll dive into conversations with global change makers who cracked the code on [00:01:00] combining income and impact.

If you’ve ever felt like you were torn between a paycheck and your purpose, or maybe you simply yearn for more purpose, you’re going to be exposed to the. Vicious humans who have done it themselves ready to make your work worth it. Let’s get started.

Today I want to introduce you to Miranda Linda O’Connell, who is a powerhouse businesswoman with a great heart and has been able to build a rewarding and ambitious career aligned with her values and principles. With deep legal experience, today she uses her law expertise at Builders Vision as Senior Counsel of Impact Investments.

In this role, Miranda advises on the execution of investments primarily made by Builders Initiative and Builders Asset Management to maximize social impact. She has a true passion for impact and has developed extensive experience creating and investing in innovative [00:02:00] investment vehicles and structures to achieve impact  oriented goals.

Thank you Before joining Builders Vision, Miranda built expertise as a leader of ESG and sustainability at a global law firm, serving as managing partner of their San Francisco office. In her early days of working, she worked as the race director for the San Francisco Marathon. Hi Miranda, so great to have you on the podcast.

Thank you for being here.

Miranda Lindl: Aw, thanks for having me. It’s so nice to be here.

Yeah, really great. Well, I just wanted to jump in and get to all that we can talk about because there’s probably a long list of things to chat about, but I wanted to ask you about the quote that I saw you had in your LinkedIn title, which was, start where you are, use what you have, and do what you can by Arthur Ashe.

What inspired you to put that on your LinkedIn profile?

Miranda Lindl: Yeah, no, great question. I heard it from someone else when I was sitting in a presentation about impact investing. And it struck me [00:03:00] because now I’m at a certain stage of my life and my career where I can have a lot more impact than I could when I was younger and have much more tools available to me and resources available to me now, but that doesn’t take away from the fact that a lot of these problems and projects that we try and tackle in like whatever phase we’re at are really huge.

And you have to really think through all the different steps and face a lot of setbacks and how to just continue to keep moving forward and kind of keeping the faith on whatever your goal is, no matter what your obstacles are that are coming your way.

Yeah. So, like the motivation to keep you on track.

Miranda Lindl: Absolutely.

Yeah. I was hoping that you can share a little bit about where you are now in your career and what makes it worth it for you.

Miranda Lindl: Yeah, sure. So I’m an attorney by training, and I work for Builders Vision, which is this great organization that was started by Lucas Walton, who’s a Walmart heir, and he really cared about the environment, [00:04:00] and so he created an impact investing platform that really focuses on three silos, which is healthy oceans and sustainable food and agriculture and the climate and energy transition away from oil and gas.

And I met my now boss a couple of years ago at a conference and started talking to her about the possibility of coming over and working with her on managing and negotiating the impact investments they make, which is a huge range, which I can get into and explain in more depth. But at the time it was really exciting and attractive to move over because.

There’s so much flexibility and new and fun, cool stuff, what I call wackadoodle stuff that we get to do, which is a hybrid of for profit and nonprofit and all sorts of tools that we use to try and meet these different goals. And I got really excited about it because I had been working at a large law firm and had really created a niche for myself and doing impact investing, but it was in varying shades and [00:05:00] degrees.

And it was something that I really cared about and knew I wanted to dedicate myself to. So. When the opportunity came up to be able to do it all day, every day, I got really excited.

That sounds incredible. Can you tell me, like, an example of a project that you work on, or a couple different types of projects from the categories that you shared?

Miranda Lindl: Sure, absolutely. So, we have a couple different vehicles that target different things, but in summary, A recent one that we were just talking about on the market rate side is a really large blue bond that we helped guarantee that came through for the Bahamas. That was a really fun, exciting project. I definitely have never done a blue bond before.

Can you describe to the audience what a blue bond is? Absolutely. Yeah, it’s the restructuring of a government’s debt on the market via a tender offer, which is a lot of scary words that a lot of people don’t know what they mean. But in short, you’re basically able to restructure it at a discount and give the government the extra money that the discount creates.

And so based on market conditions, we were [00:06:00] 124 million for. The Bahamas and what the government has to do is use that money for conservation efforts and part of the default mechanisms within the loan that they were given that new money with. It includes things like not meeting the conservation metrics that are baked into the agreement.

And so in addition to like a normal loan where you don’t pay the money, so back, so you’re in default, another form of default is not meeting the metrics they’re supposed to be meeting for mainly coral conservation in the ocean. So it was a really. Crazy, fun, new project. There were lots of bankers. There were lots of finance professionals.

There were lots of lawyers, but in the end it ended up being this just really cool collaboration between a nonprofit, the Nature Conservancy, who kind of brokered the deal and then a number of for profit actors, and it came out with this great result.

Yeah, I love that you talk about collaboration. How is that played a big part in the work that you do?

Miranda Lindl: Oh, [00:07:00] everywhere. Yeah, absolutely everywhere. I mean, collaboration’s everything. I think You have to have a really curious and open mind to understand what other people do. So I’ve been heavily trained as you can tell with law, but also with finance and investment side. So more venture capital private equity, but a huge piece of what we do is working with nonprofits.

So whether it’s grants or Symposiums or collaborations on movies, any sort of things that we’re working on putting together. You have to understand their world and all these great tools that they have to effectuate the same things that we’re trying to achieve on the for profit side.

Okay, so is it part of your role to build this ecosystem and bring people together or are people bringing you in on these kinds of things or both?

Miranda Lindl: Oh, yeah. So, for example, going back to the Blue Bond example, we were lucky that one of the people in our, we have a private foundation that we also help source investments for. And one of the senior program officers in the private foundation is one of the premier [00:08:00] ocean experts in conservation in the world.

And so he was able to come in and opine on what these metrics are. Conservation metrics are supposed to be that the government was supposed to hit. And if we didn’t have that expertise, we could bring in all the bankers in the world and we would have no idea what metrics we’re supposed to have them set in order to meet the ocean conservation goals.

So it was a great collaborative.

Yeah. So you must be working on amazing projects and it sounds like they’re large scale as well. So You can definitely have a big impact.

Miranda Lindl: Absolutely. You know, and they can be small scale too. One of the other examples is that one of the other vehicles we have is really more market creating, especially in oceans.

There’s not a huge market for oceans products and companies and different things that we invest in. And so we go in really early stage, smaller checks and play much more of a advisory role to help the company really get started and get going. In order to just kind of create a market of products that doesn’t even yet exist.

So it’s kind of a combination of really [00:09:00] big stuff as well as really small stuff to try and create more space for it.

Okay. So part of what it sounds like on those projects is also to absorb a lot of the risk to like an unknown markets to try and get these projects off the ground. Whereas if they were raising money in a.

Like normal financial situation, they would be held to metrics that maybe they couldn’t reach. It was still experimental. Exactly.

Miranda Lindl: Yeah, and it’s catalyzing others that go in. So we’ll go in first, take the bigger risk, and then others will see we’ll have done that and then join in the next. round, or we’ll even just take different economic metrics to take on more risk, so that others will come in and fund it.

Yeah. I know that you had a long time working at a law firm, and I would love to chat about that experience that you had. It looks like, from what I’ve read, that you were able to position yourself in that law firm for projects that really had [00:10:00] value to you, and I wonder how that works in law, and if you can help us navigate that and share your insights.

Miranda Lindl: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, that’s a harder example, but probably one that’s more important, because how do you work within a really large institution to still find purpose that will make you want to come to work every day and that you really value, and That can be harder, right? Especially if it’s a really huge firm, which it was, it was a great firm.

It was a good place for me, which is why I was able to stay for so long and really just grow and develop. But I think it requires two things. The first is I had two great mentors who really, you know, I always say trained me and made me the lawyer I am today. And one of them in particular had this kind of great business plan.

And one of the things to know about law firms is that it’s hard to know this when you’re first going from law school. And I’m sure it’s the same in these really large banks, but in the end of the day, if you’re going to become a partner or someone who’s really the one originating the business, it’s actually quite [00:11:00] entrepreneurial.

Like you can think about your own ideas and what you want to achieve. Hopefully, and if you have a good business case and a good market for it, they’ll accept it and promote you a partner and you can really run your own little silo of business that’s focused on what you want it to focus on. I definitely did not know that when I was a junior associate at the firm and had no insight into that or even recognition that that could be the case, but one of the two senior partners I was working for, kind of came up with a business plan during the Great Recession.

So during starting in 08, and he probably had it before then, but it really became relevant to me during that time because When all of the business died during recession and you’re a transactional associate at a law firm, you can’t make your billable hours. You’re about to be laid off because there’s not enough work to keep you busy.

So one of the people that was keeping me busy was this guy. And in his collaboration with a tax partner, who’s Entire book and business was nonprofits. It was all really large private [00:12:00] foundations and nonprofits and public charities, and we were working with them to make their investments for them. And so they were the ones that even though everybody else was dead and was making no investments, not doing any activity on the investment side, they were still doing it.

So I ended up developing this expertise of doing for profit and non profit investments for private foundations. So a lot of the large foundations on the West Coast, so the Gates Foundation, the Omidyar Group of Foundations, a lot of different ones, and then some of the bigger ones in the Midwest and the East Coast too.

And it really taught me how to start incorporating non financial objectives into investments. Hold people accountable for them. So if you’re making investment, which private foundations, for example, can make an investment intentionally, not to make money, they’re called program related investments or PRIs, then you have to figure out how to hold them accountable for non financial objectives and to bake that into the deals.

And there were [00:13:00] some huge blowups. A lot of them were very public. There were a lot of problems that came out of it that I learned. So much from and developed an expertise on how to basically do this kind of hybrid version of investing. And then because I lived in San Francisco and there were all these kind of tech entrepreneurs and billionaires that were coming up that are my generation, they themselves in their family offices and the private foundations, they were forming and even their for profit entities were holding themselves kind of the standard of social responsibility and investing.

So I was easily able to kind of take the rules and kind of tidbits and tools that I was learning from the private foundation side and start applying it to my for profit clients, too, who started to engage in, used to be called corporate social responsibility investing, and then it was called ESG, and now it’s called impact investing, whatever it is, and basically having some sort of non financial priority in making the investment.

And that’s what I was put up on partner on, eventually, is [00:14:00] basically developing that whole plan and Having to work for me and it was so fun. It was just a great opportunity to experience.

It sounds like you really like to be in an area that is experimental. And as you said, entrepreneurial, would you have known that about yourself at a young age, or is this something like, it’s like, almost like you’ve got the best of both worlds.

Like you’re in a structured environment with a steady job. And you get to be entrepreneurial and experimental in the process. It’s a

Miranda Lindl: great mix for me. I often think I maybe should have gone to business school. Because I don’t think I’m a normal lawyer that way. I think a lot of lawyers like to rely on precedent and doing something they’ve done in the past.

I am a little bit of the opposite and have gone through enough personality tests now to know. I don’t think I knew it when I was younger that I always like the next new thing to try it and see if it’ll work and learn from it and, you know, don’t have a huge ego attached and being right and just would rather, you know, find the right solution and

move it forward.

Miranda Lindl: Exactly. [00:15:00] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When I was younger, I think I just, you know, I was really passionate just based on. The experiences I had before I went to law school about trying to do something that made sense to me. It was kind of good for the world. And law firms really do have great pro bono programs. And so I cut my teeth a lot on those when I was a junior associate before all the other work started coming through.

And so that would just be a piece of advice, is like, if you can take advantage and find a law firm that really does offer and gives you credit for your billable hours for pro bono work, like, that’s a great way to get started on it.

Yeah. So I met you many, many years ago when we were very young. And at the time you had started your career and you were working for the San Francisco Marathon.

And I wonder if you can take us back to those years where you were following something you were really passionate about, and then what changed for you to take such a dramatic career shift?

Miranda Lindl: Sure. Yeah. So I moved out to San Francisco in college and followed my older [00:16:00] sister, who you know well, and I started working for internet companies.

They were called at the time, this is like the late nineties and early two thousands, and when I lost my job in the dot com bus, I couldn’t find another one in the same industry. I started looking around for things that would kind of fit my personality which was very outgoing at the time and so I ended up getting a job through my uncle through the San Francisco Marathon and basically became the race director of the San Francisco Marathon.

At the time those races were run by newspapers if you remember. It was like all the different newspapers owned these races and the San Francisco Chronicle owned the marathon and they didn’t want to do it anymore so they basically gave it to us. And so my job was to go around and to sell the marathon at all the expos of the major marathons in the U.

1. And it was a very fun job. I basically got to go hang out in L. A. for a week and go work at the expo and go. Sell the marathon to different people. And I started to learn, you know, [00:17:00] all about how these races raise money for different sorts of causes and how people use them and how they’re motivated by kind of the tragedies in their own lives to do it.

And so we started to really incorporate large pieces of that into the marathon. And that kind of combined with the fact that everyone kept asking us to go across the Golden Gate Bridge. So we added the Golden Gate Bridge to the race course. The marathon just blew up and became this great race that it is today, which is really awesome.

But it was a great learning experience, which has been consistent throughout my entire career of how. You can marry the purpose into the for profit and we’re such a capitalist society. I mean, we’re just so governed by money and it really doesn’t make sense to a lot of us. You know, we need it. We need it to live and to pay for things in our lives.

But those of us that work in the finance sector and private equity in V. C. You’re just, you feel so dominated by it and it can feel vacant. So it was a really great. Just kind of shift and theme that I [00:18:00] could carry out through a lot of these jobs.

Yeah, yeah. And then how did you decide that you wanted to shift and become a lawyer?

Miranda Lindl: Yeah, so I, I could have stayed. I had the great opportunity to stay. And it would have been a great job, to be honest, lifestyle wise particularly. But in the end of the day, I started to become a little bored. And I was like, I think My dad’s a lawyer and I have a similar personality to him. And I was like, you know what, this is starting to make more and more sense about why he did this.

And, you know, if you want to become a lawyer, you gotta, you gotta know how to advocate for yourself and you gotta really love to read. And those were two things that were a huge part of my personality. I did have the idea, based on the experience with the marathon, to really go into a non profit realm and do that.

I ended up not going to Berkeley for law school, which is really one of the schools that had the non profit kind of sphere, and really focused on it, and went to Hastings in San Francisco instead. And at that point, I started to get into other things that I was interested in. [00:19:00] But when you got into the law firm itself, it was really easy, as I was saying before, with the pro bono path to kind of pick what you cared about and really push it forward, which is great.

I mean, it sounds like all the experiences you’ve shared with us so far, there’s a big luck component, but then there’s also a piece that you’ve been intentional about. I want to continue to do good.

Miranda Lindl: Yeah, absolutely. And I think you, I mean, it helped too for law school in particular. I was, I was 29 when I went back to law school.

So I was older. I knew what it was like to work. I was much more intentional about choosing what I wanted. And once I got to the law firm, it was a little bit easier for me to see how to manage up a bit and how to take advantage of the opportunities. that were given to me that would allow me to really do what I wanted to do and live the lifestyle I want to.

There’s kind of a resignation when you join these big law firms and investment firms that you have to kind of abide by that culture. And I, I fought that and I, I found a way to find a lot of room within it to kind of create what I wanted to the best [00:20:00] of my ability. Wasn’t perfect, but it was pretty good.

Being a lawyer today with AI and everything, what would you give as advice for young people either already in the process or thinking about it? Like, are the opportunities going to change significantly or do you see a lag there? What are you experiencing?

Miranda Lindl: Yeah, no, it’s a great question. And I know there’s a really open conversation right now about AI.

I think I’ll answer it with probably the best answer, which non lawyers don’t know, is one of the biggest issues that AI raises is a legal issue about like copyright and privacy and all these things. So in the end, to date, all AI has done is actually created more legal work rather than take away work from lawyers.

But, and it’s, it’s made our lives easier. It’s made it easier for us to find language that we can easily use for different situations on Google and. Using different sort of A. I. Tools that are out there. However, in the end of the day, you still need to have a lawyer’s [00:21:00] brain to assess what is good and what’s not over what’s being offered.

And so I don’t think A. I. Is yet taking over the legal world. It’s just kind of so far been a tool that’s major saved you 10 minutes of drafting and that you would have had to come up with yourself.

Miranda, you talked about personality tests in the beginning and that you didn’t know much about yourself maybe until you took some of those tests or found out some things that surprised you.

Can you talk a little bit about that and maybe what sort of when those became relevant and for the first time introduced to you?

Miranda Lindl: Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, I think it, in hindsight, just helped explain a lot. So, you know, especially in the law firm profession, there’s a lot of really red personalities, is what we call them, kind of ambitious personalities.

In law school, they’re called gunners. They’re really competitive ones, cutthroat. They’ll kind of, you know, undermine anyone to kind of get things done. And then glue, like kind of just precedential personalities, which are like, there’s a [00:22:00] precedent for something I’ve done. I need all the facts and data and every analysis before I’ll ever make a decision.

And I want to be 100 percent sure before I make any decision, neither of those things are at all who I am. So I had to learn really early on in the law firm, how to get along with those people and how to, you know, raise my own skills in those ways to the extent necessary for my job. But my personality is two other things, which is always being open to the next new idea and wanting to try it.

And then having a lot of empathy and care for the world around me. And so, those were the two things that, that kind of overruled. And I managed to kind of keep that, even though I was kind of surrounded by an environment that didn’t really prioritize it.

How did you manage to understand those were valuable strengths in a world where maybe they weren’t always valued or recognized.

And you’re probably the red and blue personality type that you were mentioning [00:23:00] were more the traditional paths that people were taking and had a way to be recognized and succeed.

Miranda Lindl: So I always was a little bit different and stood out because of it in a lot of ways also because I was old enough and confident enough that I wasn’t, you know, going to try and pretend to be something I wasn’t, but I was rewarded for it.

And I think that was why, because, and it wasn’t by the traditional reward system within the firm, but it was by the client. And it was by the people outside of the law firm world who were like, Oh, she actually makes sense. And all these other people don’t really make sense. I can’t understand what they’re saying.

They want. 50 more answers to questions that I don’t have. They don’t seem to have an ability to look outside of their own personal experience and really envision something different. And so, as a result, the lawyers I work with started to recognize that they could put me out in these calls much more than anyone else and have much more successful outcomes, and that when the weird [00:24:00] situations came up, I actually, you know, knew how to think about them and how to put something outside of Whatever experience I’ve had to really imagine what they’re facing and how to use some tools to start to try and address them.

That probably was a stroke of luck that you were a little bit older and had the confidence to see that and then to lean into your strengths versus focus only on leveling up weaknesses to fit in.

Miranda Lindl: Yes, exactly. And I, listen, I mean, I had to get much better in those places that I wasn’t strong in and that’s helped me.

Like I can call on, You know, I think of red now is being kind of a warrior. If I need it, if I’m in a tough negotiating situation or I’m up against a red or a blue, I know how to call on it. I know how to use it to my advantage to try and get across because you have to communicate with everybody, even if they’re not like you.

So you have to learn how to, you know, just communicate, even if they don’t prioritize the same things as you.

And if you were a young person wanting to combine income and impact in the work that you are doing today, like [00:25:00] the oceans, food or climate, what advice do you have of where to start or what to think about?

Miranda Lindl: Absolutely. No, it’s a great question. And I, I feel like, you know, I don’t want to discount the nonprofit path because I do think it fills a really important role. I was never as attracted to it when I got out of school because I had a ton of loans and I needed to pay some money. Back to for school. And so I always followed the more institutional route, certainly with law firms.

And I would say the same applies out of business school in the sense that you get trained really well at large institutions. So I think it always benefits you to go work for them for the first couple of years out of school, because you need to know how they work. They train you with all the. that are out there in the marketplace and you get to pay back your loans and create your own like nest egg to go buy a house and go do different things.

I ended up staying at the law firm much longer than I expected. That was a combination of life events. I had three kids at that law firm, so I was also just busy [00:26:00] with other things going on in my personal life, but I also, it served me, I ended up working for the right company. People and they gave me enough flexibility to try and do the work and projects that I wanted to do as I gained confidence to do it and allowed me to be entrepreneurial and do it.

So don’t don’t discount the institutional path because I think that. It really can serve a purpose and there may be first of all just to get you trained and financially solvent to just launch you And it may give you more flexibility than they think they will like a lot of them have been shifting Especially in the more esg and impact space to accommodate their own clients that are starting to demand You know having that level of expertise in something other than just straight up making money.

So That’s the path I followed. It was a good path for me. There are certainly So many other paths, you know, so many of my colleagues were in house in companies, right at like within, you know, one to three years and had amazing opportunities and trainings themselves because of it. [00:27:00] So there are a lot of different paths, but I will say the institutional one really worked for me and then I was able to kind of make it something and, you know, hopefully have benefited them as well.

And, and kind of leading them with, you know, a different experience than they would have gotten otherwise.

Yeah. And values alignment, how important is that when you’re looking for to hire people or what kind of questions are you asking to get at that? That’s a good question.

Miranda Lindl: My favorite one, I was asked in an interview when I was thinking about leaving the firm, there’s a great senior partner who asked me at this at another firm.

And she was like, what do you care about? What is it that just gets you? And what do you care about? And I really care about the environment. I like that’s very important to me. I dedicate my every day to it right now. But what I actually really care about is women. And that’s like the most important thing to me.

And women just starting to assert their own. Financial and economic rights throughout the world right now. And so that’s one of my favorite questions is like, what do you really care about? [00:28:00] But my second favorite question, and this applies no matter what job you get, is please tell me an example of something that you faced that was impossible to solve.

And what did you do to try and make it happen? Because I think that whether it’s project management within a large institution or You’re working at a small nonprofit and have no resources. Those are the skills you need is to try and figure out how to project, manage something and move it forward and get it done.

And this is going to be a random question for you, but I know that you have two siblings or there’s three kids in your family and all of you are values oriented and mission aligned in your work. And what do you think your parents did to raise you to instill that? Because that feels rare. You’re all successful, and you’re all mission oriented.

Oh,

Miranda Lindl: yeah, yeah. No, appreciate that. You know, it’s funny, we were all raised really religiously, and I don’t want to discount how important religion can be, but I actually [00:29:00] don’t think it was that. I think my parents are just, like, curious, empathetic people, and They were the only liberals in a really conservative town and so we’re always just really open to other people and the way they were living and what their ideas were.

And for whatever reason, that kind of played through to all of us, of a sense of kind of responsibility for your community, even if you’re not exactly like the people in it, a responsibility to own it. You know, to actually really do what you can to make things better or, or just that don’t make sense.

Getting

back to the original quote that we, that we talked about, it sounds like, yeah. Speaking of responsibility and doing good in the world, do you have any resources that you like to recommend? Favorite books or podcasts or anything that you think is, this really shaped how I think about the world.

Whether it’s focused directly on women or directly on climate or just in general on [00:30:00] how to be a better person through work.

Miranda Lindl: Yeah, and I’m Georgi previewed this question for me and honestly, I don’t. And the reason is, is that they don’t really exist yet. They’re very sector focused. So to your point, there’s amazing resources out there about environments and amazing resources about it.

Women’s rights and social rights and governance and all these things. But in the end of the day, what we’re always trying to do is create the next new thing and how best to do it. So I’ve just mainly learned from my mistakes and been open and just said yes to experiences that come through. And when people ask me questions that I don’t know the answer to, I’m like, wow, that is an amazing question.

I have no idea how to answer it, but I’m. So excited to try and figure out how to do that.

What’s going to keep you up at night for the next three months.

Miranda Lindl: So my advice is just to be open and just to say yes to things. Yeah.

[00:31:00] Well, so much for sharing all this wisdom and agreeing to come on the podcast. And it looks like your day to day job is so interesting and you’ve put in some blood, sweat and tears to get there.

So just really appreciate hearing your story and the inspiration that you impart. for my listeners. Thank you.

Miranda Lindl: Aw, thank you, Georgi. It’s been so fun. My pleasure.

Alright, well, take care. I wanted to share my hot take on this interview with Miranda. You guys can’t see it because you’re listening to it, but she had a smile on her face for most of the interview.

Yes, she’s a happy person, but more importantly, she really enjoys her work. I also wanted to emphasize the importance of finding a place after your education that will allow you to pay off your debt. For Miranda, it was a well established law firm. But as luck would have it, it did not mean she had to compromise her values and her continued desire for learning.

But rather, it created a wonderful learning opportunity [00:32:00] for her as she carved out an interesting niche. And that’s a wrap for today’s episode of Work That’s Worth It. Remember, every conversation we share is designed to empower you to build a career that’s truly worth your time and energy. There are future disruptors out there just like you who would appreciate the conversations in this podcast.

Please support me by spreading the word and sharing this episode with a friend or two, or visit my website at georgienthoven. com. That’s spelled G E O R G I E N T H O V E N dot com. Until next time, ask yourself, what problems am I solving and are they worth my valuable time? Your intentional choices today can lead to exponential impact tomorrow.

Thanks for listening.