S1, E21: From Political Insider to Global Humanitarian: Finding Purpose in Crisis Zones

Ann Marie: [00:00:00] There was one particular time I was at the sort of top annual horse race down in Melbourne, and I was looking around at the amounts of money people were putting down on bets. I was in a very fancy tent that had a real waterfall behind the bar and someone with a snake around their neck and all sorts of things, and it was one of the clear moments.

I remember. I looked around, I was just like, I. Just felt it really deeply. I do not belong here.

Georgi: Did you know the average person will work 90,000 hours in their lifetime? What if you could use those hours to find fulfillment and become a disruptor for good? Welcome to the Work That’s Worth It. Podcast. I’m Georgi Enthoven, and I’m here to demonstrate that an. Vicious, meaningful and rewarding career is not just a dream, it’s achievable.

Each episode will dive into conversations with global change makers who crack the code on combining income and impact. If you’ve ever felt like you were torn between a paycheck and your purpose, or maybe you simply yearn for more purpose, you’re [00:01:00] going to be exposed to the ambitious humans who have done it themselves.

Ready to make your work worth it. Let’s get started.

Today we are going to leave heavily into impact, and I am joined by a woman who 14 years ago, quit her comfortable job in Australian politics and move to the Middle East to build a new career as a humanitarian. Ann Marie Wilcox has since lived and worked in countries facing conflict. Natural disasters and poverty, including countries such as Palestine, Pakistan, Nepal, and Turkey.

Currently working in New York, she collaborates with some of the world’s largest UN organizations, multilateral organizations, and not-for-profits. In a world where humanitarian missions face increasing challenges from political tensions, funding cuts, and unprecedented crises, the people who choose this path demonstrate extraordinary courage and commitment.

If you’ve ever wondered what drives someone [00:02:00] to leave behind a stable career or life to work in some of the most challenging environments on earth, or if you’re curious about building your own career in humanitarian work, this conversation offers both inspiration and practical insights. Emory’s journey from journalists and political advisor to global Humanitarian is a powerful example of following your purpose beyond your comfort zone.

She is so passionate about helping others make this transition that she founded the blog, hit the Iron Bell to guide aspiring Humanitarians to building fulfilling careers in aid or development work. Ann-Marie, so lovely to have you on the work that’s worth it. Podcast, thanks for being here.

Ann-Marie: Thanks for having me,

Georgi: Georgi.

Yeah. Well, we have had a conversation before this and I was really fascinated by a major pivot you had in your career in your thirties, and I would love to jump in right there at the pivot point, and if you can tell us what you came from and what you went to.

Ann Marie: [00:03:00] Sure. So I was in my early thirties in Sydney.

I had nearly a decade of working in politics and I’d worked in media before that as a journalist. I had loved both of those pieces of my career, and they were. Fulfilling, but I was looking for something that was even more aligned with my values and my personality. I, I had a sense, a growing sense towards the end of my time in politics that I just wasn’t where I was meant to be, and I didn’t quite belong and it wasn’t as fulfilling as what I was looking for.

And I would look around, you’d get to go to some pretty privileged events working in politics. There was one particular time I was at the sort of top annual horse race down in Melbourne, and I was looking around at the amounts of money people were putting down on bets. I was in a very fancy tent that had a real waterfall behind the bar and someone with a snake around their neck and all sorts of things, and it was one of the clear moments.

I remember. I looked around, I [00:04:00] was just like, I. Just felt it really deeply. I do not belong here. And I had a sense that I wanted to work in humanitarian or as a humanitarian or in the development space, so. I felt at that time that it was now or never, and I had this really deep fear of ending up 80 years old and looking back and asking myself, what if, what could I have achieved?

What kind of life could I have built? What kinds of experiences could I have had if I’d been brave enough to take that chance? That fear was greater than the fear of. Throwing it all in and trying to go after my dream. As I say, at the time, I, I took the view it was now or never. I was already in my early thirties.

I now think that is absolutely not true. I have seen people in their fifties and sixties find their way into this type of work, but that was part of my motivation at the time.

Georgi: Yeah. What a wonderful, interesting moment and where you just felt that it [00:05:00] was a clear picture of not being aligned with what you were here to do in this world.

Ann Marie: Yes, and it was about my sense of what I wanted to do to contribute to the world and this sense of a really deep sense of the inequality and just unfairness of some of the lives that a lot of people were living and, but also lifestyle. And I didn’t wanna continue living in this very comfortable bubble in Sydney.

I had a great apartment. It was eight minutes walk from the very famous Bondi Beach. Very comfortable. I didn’t wanna stay living in that bubble. And ignoring the desperate inequality and poverty and that that other people were facing.

Georgi: Yeah. What do you think that was about for you? What made you want to get out of that easy, pleasant lifestyle?

That everything sort of on the surface probably looked great? I think it’s two

Ann Marie: things. I think for me. I didn’t want to live my life taking advantage of that privilege that I had just happened to have been born into. [00:06:00] I didn’t think that was fair, and I wanted to do something to try to make the rest of the world a bit more fair and a bit safer and cleaner for everyone.

But also I was a bit stifled and honestly, probably a little bit bored. I need to be pushed out of my comfort zone. I need to be. Living in environments where people are speaking different languages. I’m completely unfamiliar with the culture and the farst corners of the earth, the most remote villages. I need to see those, those environments and meet with people in those places and have those experiences.

And I obviously wasn’t getting that living in Sydney.

Georgi: Yeah, so it’s almost like a sense of adventure and needing more grit. Yes, definitely. Yeah. So maybe you can start by telling us where you are now. Where have you gotten to post the waterfall in the background of the bar?

Ann Marie: So, for the last 14 years, I have been steadily building my career in humanitarian and development work.

Basically, I. A number of people had told me it would be very hard to get [00:07:00] into this type of work from Sydney. So what I did was I packed up my life in Sydney and got on a plane and flew over to Jerusalem to try to network, meet people on the ground, volunteer my time, offer to work for a few months for, you know, low income, and find my way into the system that way, and it worked.

I started working for RA for the UN agency that looks after Palestinian refugees. Then I got my Master’s. ’cause that is a requirement for a lot of these types of roles. And then I worked for Doctors Without Borders in Pakistan. I worked for the Food and Agriculture Organization, which is a UN body in Nepal after the earthquake and Myanmar after floods.

And then I came to New York where I’ve worked for two different UN agencies.

Georgi: Wow. Did you ever have a moment of, oh my God, what have I, what have I chewed off here?

Ann Marie: No, I mean, I had moments where I was like, this is really hard and uncomfortable. There was one moment in, I think it was in Myanmar, it was Christmas [00:08:00] time, so I wasn’t able to get home for Christmas.

I was ordering, trying to order Christmas presents with very little wifi in, in, you know, a, a remote part of me and Ma and I got really sick. And I just remember like being called up on the bed in this. Hostile with very limited facilities and just feeling like I was never gonna be able to feel well again and be able to walk around again.

So you do have moments where it’s tough, but no, I, in fact, the opposite. Every experience I’ve had reinforces that I made the right decision and I am constantly so proud of myself and so glad that I trusted my intuition and took the chance.

Georgi: Yeah. Can you tell us what is a day in the life of what you do?

Ann Marie: So right now, because again, ’cause I’m currently working in New York, although I am about to go to Afghanistan to work there for a year with the un, but here in New York it’s a lot more because it is headquarters, it’s a lot more focused on advocacy. Trying to find ways to [00:09:00] persuade decision makers to, you know, to act for human rights and, and to address some of the biggest challenges the world is facing.

So there’s a lot of, you know, coordination. Thinking about how you make your arguments as well as explaining the kind of work that that organization is doing and the value add and the impact it’s having. And then you are lucky enough to be able to go out to different countries where these organizations are working and support the teams there for periods of time.

Like I went to Turkey after the most recent earthquakes there and spent a month in Ankara with the team there, and I just spent a month, about six months ago in. Nepal back in Katmandu supporting our regional office there. So it’s some sometime traveling and sometime here in New York.

Georgi: Okay. So this kind of work, you have to be willing to go to all corners of the earth.

Ann Marie: Yes, and I talk about this a lot. You have to be flexible and you have to be willing to move where the need [00:10:00] is greatest. You can. Find opportunities that give you more time in somewhere like New York or Geneva or even, even some stations like Nairobi, you know, are, are actually very comfortable and people will live there with their young families.

But I don’t think you can do your job as a humanitarian and understand, do directly from people impacted by these crises, what support they want and need, and what they want the rest of the world to know about what they’re experiencing. You can’t. Get that from Headquarters’ office sitting in office in New

Georgi: York.

Ann Marie: Yeah.

Georgi: Yeah. Okay. So what skills or qualities or strengths did you have that has helped you be really successful in humanitarian work that you do today? So,

Ann Marie: I’ll, I’ll start with the skills first, and there’s, there’s, I guess there’s a couple of. General big buckets. One is the very specialized area of expertise that someone [00:11:00] might have accrued over a number of years in their career that ties to their, maybe their study.

I’m not in that field. I’m in the more transferrable skills side of the fence. So I’m from obviously communications background. I worked as a journalist and then as a media spokesperson for most of those years in politics. So I drew on my communication skills. One, my political judgment, you know, my, my ability to work in high pressure environments where your message is extremely important and sensitive, and you have to think about how and when you communicate.

So that’s on the skill side and transferable skills. There are many, many, many opportunities for people to bring their transferable skills over to these organizations. You don’t have to have a specialty, but also I do have that sense of adventure. I do have less fear about going into new environments than other people, and I am very flexible with my living environments.

You know, I don’t need, or I don’t even want luxury. I’m happy to put up with a bit of discomfort. I grew up hiking and camping with my family, so [00:12:00] I’m able to go and. Integrate with the, the teams working in areas where the living conditions may not be what a lot of people would be looking for, and that enables you to do the work where it’s really needed the most.

Georgi: Yeah, that’s so interesting. If you had to think about this phase of your career and what gives you, what gives you energy to keep going, what lights you up, what gets you excited, maybe you can highlight on some of those aspects for us.

Ann Marie: Yeah. I mean, most fundamentally, and you hear this all the time, it’s one of the things I love about this field of work is people are always.

Referring back to the mission and the mandate of the organization, like what are we here to do? Whose lives are we trying to improve? Who are we trying to support? And for different agencies that might be, you know, children, it might be pregnant mothers, it might be farmers needing support to grow crops to feed their families.

But remembering that mission and your why. [00:13:00] Is, is a way to always remain inspired even when things are really tough. Two, to remember that I’m, again, like, I’m very privileged as compared to a lot of other people around the world, particularly a lot of women and girls. I was able to get an education. I’ve had opportunities.

So being really aware of that. Again, I, I just don’t think it’s fair that by some fluke I happen to have been born into a family that had, was able to give me opportunities. So I, I. My fire to do something about that. However, small is, is as strong as ever. And honestly, the people you talk to have been affected by crises.

When they welcome you into their homes, when they share little bits of rice and some green vegetables and some yak milk with you, if that’s all they have, that keeps you going. And then finally, the people you work with. Because honestly, I call the, you know, I found my tribe. I really found my tribe in this community.

They are. Badass. They are brave, they are determined, [00:14:00] and they always lift me up and inspire me.

Georgi: Yeah. So the people that you like or the, the gritty living on the edge, having adventurous spirit, happy to help and contribute to the world, those people make it rich for you.

Ann Marie: Yes, these people working as humanitarians and in development, you know, they do make a lot of sacrifices and you are constantly reminded of that.

You might miss family milestones. Someone might die while you’re on a mission. You can’t get back to them. You might miss out on. Salary compared to people going into finance or mark, you know, marketing or advertising or something. Again, like I said, living in some environments that are not particularly comfortable, like there are lots of sacrifices that people make, and I, I, I admire people who are willing to make those sacrifices year after year.

Yeah.

Georgi: Can we touch a little bit on salary structure as well? Like not, you don’t have to give specifics, but just wondering, are you able to take vacation if you want to and pay rent, and how does that work [00:15:00] in your lifestyle?

Ann Marie: Yeah, so there’s no single answer to that because it’s a very complicated structure and you have different organizations on different pay scales with the un, you know, and I, I wanna be really.

Honest about this, like the, the UN is not hard done by like, it, it is a good salary and they particularly have good benefits, you know, support with children’s education, support with moving around the world. You, you know, your health benefits, they’re all good. They’re not, again, they’re not like working in finance level and they shouldn’t be, but it is, it is a good, it is good support and, and a decent lifestyle.

If you’re gonna work for nonprofits or NGOs, of course that can be a bit different and the, you know, the salaries can be lower and the support available in terms of other benefits might not be there. But there are specific reasons why people are drawn to nonprofit and NGO work as opposed to working for the un.

So I guess it just [00:16:00] depends, is the answer, is the short answer.

Georgi: Okay. And what is like the long-term prospects of your career? Is this something you do for the next 20 years, or where? Where do you go from here? I

Ann Marie: have no plans to leave it right now. I mean, you can here. I’m an Australian, so I’ve been away from home for 14 years.

To me, the question is where do you want to retire? I think that’s, that’s the million dollar question, but I have no plans to leave the industry. I have many more. I. Countries that I would like to work in. I’m always drawn to trying to find ways to support when there’s, you know, a new crisis happening. And I just, I do wanna add that right now, the industry, both humanitarian and development work, NGOs, nonprofits, and the UN and development banks, they’re all facing significant challenges right now.

Numerous governments are reducing their foreign aid, so talking to people in this type of work right now. There’s a real sense that now more than ever, we need to [00:17:00] continue doing everything we can because the work that we do is so vulnerable and without the work that we’re doing, you know, people would, would hurt and potentially lose their lives.

So I certainly have no plans to leave. As I say, I’m going to Afghanistan next, so I’ll be there for a year, at least at at first. And yeah, I think that’s one of the. Interesting things about this type of work is that there’s always another opportunity and another fascinating environment where there are people who really need to have their voices heard and, and have support.

Georgi: Yeah. If, if you were a young person, like early in your career, let’s talk about the on-ramps at that stage. What would you recommend would set you up for success in a career in humanitarian work and aid work?

Ann Marie: Yes. So I mean, I, over all of these years, I, I’ve gotten some clarity on a bit of a framework, you know, some steps that I think people need to follow.

So I need, I think they need to think about their personality and their [00:18:00] purpose. Again, you know, are you open to going to areas where I. The showers and the toilets and the access to services are, you know, are not that good where your, your security might be at constant risk. So think about your personality and what type of work aligns with your purpose.

Then you need to be willing. To make the decision and commit to taking the leap to build your career with purpose. And that’s really about stepping out of, you know, triggering a have, like finding a circuit breaker to that comfort zone go round because it can be very powerful and it can suck you in. So you need to trip that circuit.

And follow your, your courage zone rather than your comfort zone. And then you need to be willing to be flexible, as you know, as we were talking about. So go where the need is persist. You have to stick at it. You have to be willing to continue applying, networking, nurture the contacts that you make, [00:19:00] and be really strategic and deliberate about your.

Your applications and the entry points that might make sense for you. If you do all of those things, then you will eventually get your foot in the door.

Georgi: Okay. You don’t have recommendations for what to study or anything like that, or for graduate programs or? I.

Ann Marie: So I always encourage people not to get too caught up in that and feel too bound by that.

In many roles like mine, where that take, you know, that rely on transferable skills, it doesn’t matter as much. It does matter that you have those qualifications and you can tick the box to say, yes, I have, unfortunately, in many cases, yes, I have a master’s, but so long as it’s something that’s broadly, I mean, if I’d studied rocket science or something, maybe that.

Might have been a bit of an issue, but generally it’s, it’s pretty broad. If you have a specialization like gender or polio or something, maybe it helps to have studied that a little bit more, but I think people should be studying something that lights them up that they find really [00:20:00] interesting, and then just enjoy the process of learning and then get stuck into the practical work experience.

Georgi: Yeah. Yeah. Just a side note is my audience can’t see, but you are smiling the whole time that you’re talking, so it’s, you know, even talking about the logistics of how you will get a career in this work, I see a smile on your face, so that’s wonderful to see. What about people who are pivoting? Like you have the moment where they just say, what am I doing?

This is not working for me. And wanting to switch. You had talked about transferrable skills, but what are the first three actions you would take to try and switch careers?

Ann Marie: Yep. So again, number one. Think about your, your personality and your purpose again, and the reason why that is so important is because it is more competitive than ever right now because people who are already in the, in this type of work, many of them are losing their jobs.

They will now be applying for roles along with people coming in you. So you have to. [00:21:00] Be aligned with what suits your personality and your purpose when you are being very deliberate in searching out the opportunities and the direction you wanna head, make that decision to take the leap and demystify the process so it can feel very overwhelming and confusing.

And I completely understand. I felt the same way. There’s no straight guidebook or sort of step-by-step support for anyone trying to get into this system. So demystify the process. By that I mean. Research, listen into panel discussions, keynote speakers, you know, attend events, put on by different universities with international relations courses.

Reach out to, you know, find people doing jobs that look interesting to you and set up calls with them to ask them how they got in. Figure out the, the common paths that people have taken. So demystify the process, and I think once you go through those three steps, you have a clear idea of what matches your personality and purpose.

You are committed to going for it and [00:22:00] taking the leap, and you start to demystify the process there. There are three really good first steps to give you a bit more confidence to move forward.

Georgi: What about what you had said when you moved to Jerusalem? Like what about putting yourself in, getting yourself out of your comfort zone and showing that you’re not just thinking about this work, but you are in the soil ready to do it?

Ann Marie: Yes, and look, I’m not suggesting that everyone does something as drastic as I do, although, as I say, a lot of people had recommended to me that I do it because they said it would be hard getting a job from Sydney. And it had been. So I had a list of, I had Jerusalem, I had Mali, and I had Bangkok as three hubs for this type of work that I thought I could, you know, go and sort of position myself in.

So it is an option. I wanna acknowledge that. Again, it’s something that not everyone has available to them. People might have family responsibilities. They might be caring for other people that they can’t leave, and even financially it might not be possible for them. If that’s not, then I [00:23:00] think you just need to invest even more in your networking.

Maybe do some volunteering even in your hometown. That will absolutely still count. And there’s also options. There’s programs like UN Volunteers or different fellowships or internships or even some of the, they’re called rosters. These er, these lists of pre-screened people that can be deployed when there’s greater need.

These can all be options to allow you to go somewhere for two or three months and then come back. So that can be a really great way to get incredible experience without having to sort of uproot and relocate somewhere. Yeah, and maybe

Georgi: even take a a trial to see if that is something that you are able to do because you can imagine something, but actually experiencing it is different.

Ann Marie: Absolutely. Yes.

Georgi: Yeah. I would love to understand the emotional toll of the work that you do. You see. People in desperate need, and obviously knowing the [00:24:00] contrast of life in developed world versus emerging market, and I wonder how you handle that. I’m always interested in careers that people can last their 90,000 hours, and how do you manage the emotional toll of the work so that it

Ann Marie: doesn’t burn you out?

Such an important question and something that the industry is still wrestling with and has not at all. Gotten perfectly right yet, but I wanna talk about two parts of it. The first part is just seeing the kinds of inequality, poverty, disadvantage that people are facing. That is really, really, I. Hard to see.

And then when you come back to perhaps a more, a city like New York or Sydney and people are spending all this money on eating out and talking about, you know, expensive bits of makeup or who’s wearing what or what color is in season, and it feels really [00:25:00] jarring. And it’s, it can be, it can take time to readjust and it’s very, you feel guilty and I.

I also wanna acknowledge that many people in these types of roles are working in their home country in Iraq. Like a lot of the people working for the UN or NGOs, there are Iraqis. And I think it’s also very difficult for them to be seeing, you know, their own country, people experiencing really tough situations.

So that’s one thing. The second piece is the security angle. So, and a lot of people. A lot of humanitarians in particular unfortunately do end up with PTSD and have other mental health challenges as a result of the insecurity and I guess injuries and and deaths that they have seen in the field, and I’ve seen many humanitarians who have carried that with them.

A very good friend of mine. Who moved back to a very modern city. He found that when [00:26:00] if he was stuck in traffic and cars behind were getting close and he had to stop with a jolt and there were horns, and he found that really triggering and he had to learn to sort of keep a distance from cars around and try to manage that.

So it’s a really difficult reality and. There is more support offered now for looking after people’s mental health and more recognition of the need that it doesn’t help anyone if you just keep going and burnout, but it’s something that Yeah, these organizations are still working on.

Georgi: Yeah. So it sounds like from an organization level, that’s something that needs to be included in the programming and may or may not be for your whatever particular project you’re on, but also.

For the individual to know that is something they need to take care of themselves and make sure that they’re doing that reflection work to know when it may be too much.

Ann Marie: Yes, and I think in the past there was a bit more of a culture of you just [00:27:00] soldier on, you don’t talk about how much you’re struggling and you’ll let people down.

If you took time off to just process and recover a little bit, that’s not as common. It hasn’t entirely disappeared, but it’s not as common now. You know, for example, when I go, you know, going to Afghanistan, like I have already been asked to participate in conversations around how I will manage my own mental health because of the, you know, the living restrictions plus, you know, the, what you see on the ground there.

So, yeah.

Georgi: Yeah. And thinking of something positive, what are you most looking forward to to this next adventure in Afghanistan?

Ann Marie: I mean, looking forward to is, you know, it, it’s, it’s a positive phrase, but I think what one of the things that I’m really glad about is that I will be able to be on the ground speaking to.

People who’ve been affected by the current situation. You know, hearing about what they want the rest of the world to know about the [00:28:00] reality that they are living day to day and the support that they need. Just being there and being able to be a part of that will really mean a lot. To me, and you know, I am interested to see how I cope with that environment.

Movement very restricted. So the, the humanitarians working there, you are working in very close quarters. You’re living and working and socializing with the same people all the time. So, and just honestly just seeing more of the country and meeting people in the communities, because every humanitarian I’ve spoken to who’s worked in Afghanistan.

Loves the country, talks about the beauty of the people and the natural environment. So I really. Can’t wait to to, to meet the Afghan people and see their beautiful country myself

Georgi: and experience that. Yeah. I know that you have helped people on this journey to get into aid work, and how can somebody get in touch with you and maybe benefit from some of your resources?

1. [00:29:00]

Ann Marie: Yes, thanks Georgi. So, yeah, I have a, a blog and, and also, um, share tips and advice on my social media accounts as well. So it’s hit the iron bell, so the blog is www.theironbell.org. Get on the blog, register for the newsletter and follow me on social media and I share. Like I say, lots of advice, tips from both myself and others in the industry on how to get in and inspiration and encouragement as well, because it is a tough journey.

As I say, it’s, I think it’s always been a marathon, not a sprint, and I think now with the challenges many of these organizations are facing, perhaps it’s become a bit of a ultra marathon to get your foot in the door, but I wanna support and encourage people along that process as well.

Georgi: Yeah. I so appreciate that you’ve been able to share really a full picture of what this work looks like and you’re not sugarcoating it and, but it is something that it seems like your soul was [00:30:00] craving and it’s like maybe something deeper that you need to experience and it’s so helpful for you to have shared with us what that means in reality to be able to take it on.

So I appreciate so much you being here.

Ann Marie: Thank you so much for the opportunity and thank you for, for your work and I’m looking forward to reading your book.

Georgi: Oh, thank you so much, and we’ll be in touch.

Ann Marie: Thanks,

Georgi: Georgi. Let’s recap some of the insights from this episode. First, finding your people transforms challenging work despite the difficult conditions in humanitarian work.

Ann-Marie found her people, those who in her words are badass, brave, and determined. The energy she receives from her work is obvious when she talks about her colleagues who share her willingness to make sacrifices for meaningful work. This suggests that having the right community can make even extremely demanding work, sustainable long term.

Also, [00:31:00] clarity doesn’t always require conventional paths. While Ann-Marie is exceptionally clear about her purpose now, she didn’t arrive there through a traditional career planning process. She followed her discomfort, that jarring feeling that she had at the fancy horse race. She trusted her intuition.

And made a bold move to Jerusalem before having everything figured out. Sometimes clarity comes through action itself. I also picked up on how confident and energized she is about her work. She was smiling throughout the interview for Ann-Marie. The clarity wasn’t about finding an easy fit, but rather about leaning into her work that deeply aligns with her personal mission and values.

And that’s a wrap for today’s episode of Work That’s Worth it. Remember, I. Every conversation we share is designed to empower you to build a career that’s truly worth your time and energy. There are future disruptors out there just like you, who would appreciate the conversations in [00:32:00] this podcast. Please support me by spreading the word and sharing this episode with a friend or two, or visit my [email protected].

That’s spelled G-E-O-R-G-I-E-N-T-H-O-V-E-N.com. Until next time, ask yourself. What problems am I solving and are they worth my valuable time? Your intentional choices today can lead to exponential impact tomorrow. Thanks for listening.